here is a personal question:.
is it disturbing to you when an author jumps into the flow of history and radically departs in order to drive an important lesson home to the reader?.
in this novel i have several watch tower leaders meeting incredibly violent deaths at the hands of --well, i won't give anything away.
Terry,
Good writing trumps all. It's your story to tell. Tell it well and people will enjoy it.
Do you have a Beta Reader, someone with a good sense of grammar and story, who can read it too? Seeing what you write through another's eyes is always helpful.
Good luck with the book.
which would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
I was a witness (thechically still am) for decades - A Company Servant, Congregation Servant, Elder, etc. I would like to think I used good sense during that era. I never felt compelled to shun anyone. But then I never sat on a "committee" that was unjust or cruel. If I didn't talk to you, it was because you were a royal creep. You slept with your daughter; you stole money from your employer; you fornicated with an clueless young girl. Trying to force someone to talk to us who detests what we did or us personally is as insane as anything the WT has ever done or said. Those who advocate a legal approach have no appreciation for American or human rights. period. And they have no sense of personal responsibility.
You want a Witness to talk to you, change your life. If you left on principal (something rare on this board), then live with your decision. But for God's sake, and your own, find some maturity. Stop whining and moaning.
which would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
My "high horse" is the rights Americans enjoy. Cult or not, they have the right of association. That right persists even if you were "born in." You would force people who don't like you to speak? Why? Some sort of self-vindication? Do you really need to vindicate yourself?
The reason why they shun is irrelevant. They have the right to do it. You don't have the right to force your association on anyone.
I can't speak to how normal the lives of those who read this board are. It is not normal to insist that people who reject you or your behavior must speak to you. Insisting that those who do not approve of us speak to us is aberrant behavior.
which would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
This won't happen, especially in the United States. Organizations and individuals have the right of association. That right includes the right to not associate.
There are x-witnesses with whom I would not assocaite. I treasure my right to choose my associates. Don't you?
What many here don't like is suffering a consequence for behavior. As i read these posts, the issue for many isn't that they believe contrary doctrine or reject on moral grounds Watchtower practice. The Watchtower religion is a morally high expectation sect. You chose a contrary course and hate the consequences. But no one is obilgated to associate with you. Some of us need to stop whining.
For those of you who are Americans, do you believe in our system of rights and obligations? It seems not. I'm not sure what you do believe. You want to force your association on those who don't accept your behvaior or current belief. Why would you do that? Why would you turn to courts or legislation to force someone to talk to you?
Some who post here misrepresent their 'enlightenment.' They found watchtower teaching and practice defective after they abandoned the group's behavior standards. Some of those who post here make youtube videos that are less than factual. You hurt yourself. No informed witness will take you seriously. I don't take you seriously, and I have serious issues with the Watchtower.
Frankly, some of us need to mature. And some of us who live in the United States need to appreciate our country's system of rights, one of which is the right to choose associates. You weren't "chosen" and you whine. Stop it.
http://www.snapnetwork.org/ireland_jehovah_s_witness_allow_predator_to_grill_victim.
ireland--jehovah's witness allow predator to "grill" victim jehovah's witness elders allowed convicted predator to "grill" victims; victims respond.
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/crime-desk/donal-macintyre-s-crime-cafe/jehovahs-witness-elders-allow-paedophile-to-grill-his-victims.
This makes me ill.
i started reading the feb 2014 public watchtower about a war that changed the world.
i had to do a double take in the very first paragraph.. .
"a century ago, millions of young men left the security of their homes and went off to war.
My uncle joined the French army in 1914. He came home an alcoholic and remained one the rest of his pitiful life.
russel is burried under the pyramid.
according to none other than frederick franz himself, in his own words!.
i read some wt trolls on here trying to say that he is under the marker a few feet away.. that is not true.
Dear Lois,
I first met Fred in 1953. He was personable, friendly, and a total fruit cake. Even at my strongest as a Witnesses, he gave me the creeps.
to active jws who visit this site, read the posts, and think about the subjects being discussed: i give my deepest respect and honor.
i know how very difficult it is, especially if you are born and raised.
the wts makes it a top priority, with no expense seemingly spared, to make it impossible for you to find out that there is someone behind the curtain.
I like the Proclaimers book, but it is edited history, short on detail, and all the good stuff is not there, of course.
Read James Penton and Schulz and de Vienne's books. Better detail. More honest history.
One of my secondary objections to Watch Tower practice is that they treat their history selectively. The Watch Tower doesn't write history. They write myth because they believe God guides them into truth.
In the introduction to A Separate Identity, Schulz writes:
Russell’s admirers put him in a historically untenable position. Even when presenting reasonably accurate narrative, they tend to create or perpetuate a myth. For many of them, Russell was God’s special instrument to restore vital truths. This apotheosis disconnects Russell from the realm of critical history. It presents a false picture of Russell, his associates and opponents. Even if one believes Russell was favored by God, no person of faith should pursue myth-building at the expense of carefully researched, accurate history. If God’s hand directed the WatchTower movement in Russell’s day, would that not best be shown by a reasonably well-researched presentation of events that reconnects Russell to his environment? If Russell had a place in God’s work, mythologizing him hides it.
Then, later he writes:
WatchTower history as it has been written resembles Greek mythology. As with Greek mythology the stories are often told in conflicting ways. If you have ever read the myths of Pan’s parentage, you understand what I mean. In the Russell mythology there is Russell the saint and there is Russell the devilish, religious fraudster. We have limited ourselves to Russell the man. We deal with unfounded claims in each chapter. In the process, we probably offend everyone with a personal commitment to the myths. We have enjoyed bursting bubbles. Watch the footnotes carefully. We detail false claims in footnotes where we do not always do so in text. We’ve been even handed in this. You will find us faulting claims made by true believers and by opposition polemicists.
Mythology replaces history when lack of curiosity is coupled with lack of thorough research. This is especially pronounced among Russell’s modern-day friends. A number of letters passed between us and institutions representing descendant religions. In a nearly uniform way, they focus on Russell, express lack of interest in anyone else, and simply do not look for detail. This distorts the history. Russell did not function in a vacuum. He was influenced by his friends, by his enemies, by what he read and experienced. These details are recoverable. The biographies of his early associates are available to a determined researcher. The “brothers” Lawver, Hipsher, Tavender, Myers, and a host of others who receive more or less mention in Zion’s Watch Tower were living people who had a physical and spiritual presence in Russell’s life and an effect on his beliefs. There are many others, some of considerable but forgotten prominence, who significantly contributed to Watch Tower history and to the development of a unified body of believers. But where is Aaron P. Riley or the small group in West Virginia who withdrew from the Church of Christ to form a congregation? Not in any history of the Watch Tower of which we are aware. Why is Calista Burk Downing a name without biography in histories of Zion’s Watch Tower?
Probably there are several reasons why the WatchTower story hasn’t been told with any sort of depth. Lack of curiosity is a prime one. Exchanges with interested parties elicited comments such as, “Thank you for the photocopies. We’re only interested in Russell himself.” This approach is part of the Saint Russell myth. Time and circumstances have wounded this approach so that some who sustained it in the past are no longer able to do so. A recent change in Watch Tower Society theology diminishes Russell’s’ status as interpreted through a doctrinal lens. A new religious paradigm does not alter the historical significance of C. T. Russell and his many associates.
If the watch Tower had taken this approach, letting all the warts and scars show, I'd have fewer issues with them. They openly say that they've altererd the publications on the watchtower.org site. Older examples are fairly well known to readers of this board. This is unethical.
russel is burried under the pyramid.
according to none other than frederick franz himself, in his own words!.
i read some wt trolls on here trying to say that he is under the marker a few feet away.. that is not true.
The unspoken issue here is the assumption that Russell was a Mason. He wasn't. And that there is a vast Masonic conspiracy. Prove it. Seeing the Pyramid monument as Masonic, those who believe this see Russell's burial as the last act in a Masonic drama. There is no historical credibility here. If you want to see what the documents and evidence suggest, see Schulz and de Vienne, A Separate Identity. (lulu.com)
It's interesting that Russell wrote:
We note also that the order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness and death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others which the members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of god in spirit and truth – through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master. In proportion as such societies consume valuable time in foolish, senseless rites and ceremonies, and in substitution the worship of their officers, and the use of words and symbols that have no meaning to them, for the Worship of God, in the appointed way – through Christ, and according to knowledge and the spirit of a sound mind 0 in that proportion these societies are grievous evils, regardless of the financial gains or losses connected with membership in them. -zwt June 1895.
True Believers point to the Queens assembly hall, reposting the post card photo of it taken right after purchase. Originally called Bliss Theater, it was built at the end of the Egyptian Theater craze and had an Egyptian motiff. All that was removed by the witnesses. They didn't build the building and weren't responsible for the decoration on it when they purchased it. Our conspiracy theory brethren ignore that.
They point to the cross and crown symbol. It traces to a number of poems and hymns. Francis Quarles wrote the poem Hadassa: The History of Queene Ester. It contains this couplet: The way to bliss lies not on beds of down, And he that has no cross deserves no crown. We'll always have the crazies with us. They were hurt by the Watch Tower too. But asserting Russell was a Mason and there is a vast Masonic conspiracy connected to the Watch Tower is crap history. It's mindless.
i have no respect for the governing body of jehovah's witnesses(tm) as i consider them to be wicked men.. having said that, is there any proven dirt on them that could expose them for the critters they are?.
i heard that jaracz was a sex offender but where's the evidence?.
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I said nothing about Rutherford's "homes." You know I didn't.
